荣鼐教授，工业设计领袖，策略家，企业家，研究者，教育家。原国际红点奖评委会主席。自1970年开始至今一直活跃在设计领域的设计师，24 项国家性和国际性不同设计奖项的获得者，各类国际著名设计赛事评委会重要成员，主要研究领域和兴趣：设计思维，老年友好型设计和设计管理。

Prof. Ron Nabarro, a strategist, entrepreneur, researcher and educator, the former jury president of Red Dot Design Award, has been a practicing designer since 1970 and to date. He won 24 national and international design awards, and was and are a member of judging panels for a range of prestigious design competitions,including WTN, Red Dot, Red Dot Concept.His principle areas of research and interest are design thinking, age friendly design and design management.

专家话刺桐

Views on Zayton

✦重新思考应对新情况的解决办法

Solutions to new situations should be re-thought

Q1：在泉州许多企业以外贸出口业务为主，疫情对企业带来了比较大的冲击，您觉得这些企业应该如何应对此次危机？

The pandemic has caused severe damage to export industry and as well as enterprises that relies on export business. Could you give them any advice on how they can use design to pull through this crisis?

A：当我们谈论设计时，我们说的是传统意义上的创新，即以使用需求或者产能为基础的设计，解决的是经济问题。但如今所说的设计也是创新思想的一种方式，比如餐馆不能营业了，人们会订外卖，比如怎样快速打包，并在运输过程中保持食物的原样和温度等。所以现在设计师不只是做传统意义上的设计，而是要寻找问题的解决办法，即跳出常规思维去寻找应对新情况的解决策略。我觉得企业和餐厅是类似的情况，整个世界在新冠疫情开始时都很震惊，人们不知道怎么办，但慢慢地，我们了解到疫情的情况，所以我认为慢慢地企业也会了解到人们的新需求。如果我们还要在家待很长时间，我们需要能让我们感觉舒适的产品。我们的房子成为我们工作、学习的场所，家人有很长时间都待在一起。不像以前，白天孩子去上学，大人去上班，晚上才会见到，大家相处融洽，现在大家的私人空间缩小了，这时，我不得不在家工作，又没有自己独立的房间，我在这个房间集中精力工作，孩子在另一个房间玩耍，设计怎样才能让我在集中精力的同时也能照看孩子？这对设计师来说是个很有趣的问题。这才是他们应该进行的设计，在突如其来的情况中提供解决方案。设计师应该与企业合作，企业应该进行调整，重新思考他们的产品是什么。世界正在改变，企业应该去适应，否则它们就无法生存。

When we are talking about design, you have what I call the traditional design which means you deal with the objects based on the use, need or capability. But now design is a way of thinking, and doesn’t have to deal with fiscal solutions. Many times it works on new strategies.For instance, in many countries around the world, restaurants couldn’t work anymore, because it’s not allowed to have so many people in a small environment. And slowly they developed a messenger system and they have started to deal with design solutions regarding the packaging, like how do you package food very quickly and the food can still be the same appearance and temperature,etc.So here designers are coming in not so much the traditional design approaches of dealing with the objects,but dealing with developing strategies or system. I think this is what we call out of the box to find solutions to a new situation. I think that factories are in the same box like the restaurants.The whole world was a little bit in a shock, with nobody knowing what was that. And slowly we learned what it was all about. So slowly I think the factories would learn what are the new needs of people.If we stay longer at home, we need different products that will make us stay more comfortable.The house actually becomes the place where we work and learn, and families suddenly become together much more time than normal.You know in the normal life, children go to school in the morning and they come back in the afternoon and parents are at work. Everyone has a kind of peace in mind. As I said before, if I have to work at home, and I don’t have a separate room for that, how can design provide a solution that at least I could keep peace in mind. I mean if the children are playing in the other part of the room, and I want to concentrate in this part of the room, how can I be isolated on one hand but keep an eye on the children that they will not do something that they are not allowed to do. This is a very interesting program for designers. This is exactly what designers need to do to give us solutions to live in unexpected situations.And of course, designers have to work hand in hand with companies. Maybe companies have to change, to rethink what is their product line.The world is changing and factories have to adjust, otherwise they die.

✦专业性+吸引力=知名度

Reputation comes from professional rules and attractive reasons for a competition

Q2：设计人才竞争、创新力竞争、革新项目竞争，在中国有许许多多的设计比赛。以您丰富的经验来看，如何判断一个比赛的价值，同时大赛该如何运作，才能更具国际影响力？

There are many design competitions in China. According to your experience, could you give us any advice on how to operate a competition in order to make it more influential in the world?

A：这个问题比较复杂，可以把这个情况比作设计师刚成立新公司，人们一开始并不知道情况如何。如果做了一个好的项目，人们看到其中的设计作品，会说这是一个好的设计师，或许有合作的可能性，渐渐地，名声就会传播开来。我认为，举办一个设计比赛最重要的是要有一个高层次的评审团，自然会筛选出优秀的作品。我在红点设计大赛做评委时，有时候一个类别中没有最好的作品，我们不会随便选一个，没有最好的作品，就不会有作品获奖，比赛的规则要牢牢守住，渐渐地，比赛就会有受到认可，也会有一定的名气。此外，如果一开始就为他们创造比较有吸引力的参赛理由，可能会吸引更多人报名。慢慢地就会有名气。所以让人觉得这个比赛规格很高，很严格，很专业，同时又据有吸引力，这样才能让大赛更有名气。

This is a very complicated question. You could compare this situation to a designer who starts a new design firm.At the beginning, nobody knows about him. If he makes a very good project,and it’s published, and somebody else sees his work, and will say that this is a good designer, we may also hire him as well.And slowly and slowly, they develop their reputation and name. I think that the most important part of setting a design competition is to have a very high-level jury.If the work is good, it gets name in the world, and if it’s not, the competition has to decide no to it. When I was the jury of the Red Dot, sometimes we don’t have the best of the best in the category. We don’t take something and say it’s OK. If there is no best of the best, there will be no award. On this level, the rules of the competition have to be kept very strictly. And slowly, like young designers, you create your own reputation.Besides, at the beginning if you create a very attractive reason for designers to participate, and slowly you build the reputation of being very serious, very high-level and professional.

专家聊设计

Views on Design

✦生活和工作的界限变得模糊

The border between personal life and work life is a little bit blurred

Q3：2020年新冠疫情影响了人们的生活方式，您觉得疫情之后的设计关注点和以往有什么不同的地方？

Since the Covid-19 affected people’s life in 2020, how do you think this pandemic affected design or the creative industry?How to deal with those changes?

A：首先，确实发生了很大的变化，现在许多人都在家工作，我之前去公司上班，开车要一个小时，而现在在家工作，节约了通勤的时间，另一方面，人们开始怀念社交生活，想要去见朋友。我认为这使我们开始认识到一个新的现实，个人生活和工作的界限变得模糊了，我们的设计也受到了影响。应该利用设计去解决这一问题，在家庭中设计更好的工作环境，创造不同的工作环境。我了解到一些以色列的新兴公司，做了一些改造办公室的设计，可以更好的进行团队工作，减少个人工作台的设计。我相信，我们现在用的一些设备，比如照相机、电脑、手机、屏幕等，都会经过设计，而变得更利于人们进行网上交流，可以在室内和室外使用。现在我们很难在公园里工作，但是为什么不能在公园里工作呢，因为现在的技术还没有解决这个问题，但是未来可能会有人找到解决的办法，使人们可以在室外工作，并同时不受噪音干扰。我认为，现在设计界还没有明白新冠疫情带来的所有结果，但我确信现在许多设计公司正在努力，他们正在寻找新的解决办法，来应对这个新的现实。

First of all, obviously there is a very dramatic change, because lots of the work is happening from home. If I need to go to the office, I have to sit in my car for about an hour to get to the office.Now people’s working at home is actually saving this time. This is one hand, and on the other hand, many people are complaining that they miss very much their social events of going to work and meeting other people.I think that we’re beginning to learn a new reality. Definitely we have a lot of effects on design around us and the border between personal life and work life is a little bit blurred. I think that designs will have to find solutions to have better working environment at home, and to design different working environment for the office.I know that many start-up companies in Israel will definitely change the structure of the office which will be more group-work environment and less personal desks. I guess also that a lot of the equipment we will be using, cameras, microphones, speakers, screens and computers, everything will have to be adapted to the new reality, where we will be more online, inside the home and outside the home. It’s very difficult to sit in the park and work. But why shouldn’t we work from the park, because at the moment technology didn’t give us solutions for that. But somebody will  have to probably work on solutions where people would be able to be in the public space, isolated from the environmental noise and do work. So I don’t think that design has yet understood all the consequences of what covid-19 has brought to us, but I’m sure that many design firms have already worked on it, and tried to find solutions for the new reality.

专家谈产业

About on Industry

✦多听听年轻人的想法

Ideas from the young generation should be carefully treated

Q4：在这个充满不确定性的时代里，您觉得新型人才的培养教育要从哪几方面进行升级？

In this era full of uncertainties, how do you think we should upgrade the cultivation and education system of the design talents? Anything you want to say to the young designers or design students?

A：首先，公司和老板应该更认真地听一听年轻设计师的想法，即使他们没什么经验。他们的经验来自思想的碰撞，正是因为他们经验少，他们能更大胆地给出建议。即使他们犯错，说出一些疯狂的想法或者不负责任的方案，我们也要认真去听，并和他们一起去讨论和实践。所以，十分重视年轻的设计师是很重要的。其次，我想强调的一条建议是，做设计下笔之前要认真去研究，搞清楚情况。我遇到很多次这样的情况，在给年轻的设计师提出问题之后，他们马上就开始设计。我认为他们应该在给出解决办法之前先去好好研究，花一些时间去了解潜在客户的需求。比如，你知道我有很多作品是围绕老年人的，现在市面上许多产品并不适用于老年人，如果我不坐下来和他们聊聊，我就不知道他们真正的需求是什么。

First of all, I think companies and managers should listen more carefully to the young designers, even the young are unexperienced designers.Because they have less experience, they are more daring to give solutions which are innovative. We have to listen to them and work together, even if they make mistakes, say crazy things or suggest irresponsible solutions.It’s very important to be very very attentive to the young generation.The other thing that I want to suggest is to do a lot of research and understanding before you start putting lines on paper. Many times I have encountered this, that if you give a designer a problem, they immediately start sketching on paper or computer. I think that they need to do much research before giving solutions, share more time with the potential users, and understand what they need.For instance, you probably know that I do a lot of work with aging population. Many of the products on the market today are not suitable for the elder people.If I don’t sit and talk with them to do research, I cannot image how they really feel.

✦不受爆款左右，专注形成强有力的技术支撑

Q5：爆款、爆红之后，抖音、小红书、微信视频号…层出不穷新的营销手段，企业要如何应对，持续输出创新力？

A：爆款还是就“产品”而言，在某阶段市场上热销的单一产品，而受到追捧，为企业创造更多更高利润的产品，只是赚快钱的一种形式！爆款以低价策略取悦消费者，由于不断有诱导消费的新爆款出现，鼓励消费者不断追求更新，浪费社会资源，这与设计是创造一种更科学更合理更健康的生活方式，与保护环境提倡绿色可持续发展的宗旨相违背。而爆红时代，有这样一种说法：捧也是媒体,杀也是媒体，昙花一现的现象…… “商业”正是攥住了这个“法宝”，用广告、包装等一切视觉手段鼓吹“以旧换新”、“流行、时尚、炫、酷”、“节假日商机”、“双十一”、幸福模式等等“消费黑洞”！制造所谓有“牌”无“品”等销售奇迹。

“工业设计”的本质和理念之所以难以被上层和底层接受，就是因为长期以来容易被曲解为“造型”“美化”“时尚”……可以被利用于“牟利”的最大机会！ 

企业要如何应对？持续输出创新力。重要的是企业发展方向不要受爆款的左右，应该坚定地将发展重点放在建立工业设计数据资源中心，参与设计领域相关标准制订，在建设重点聚焦元器件数据库、CMF(色彩、材料、工艺)数据库、文化艺术资源库、人体心理生理数据库、产品图谱库、行业分析数据库、生命周期评价数据库、设计项目案例库、专利数据库等基础信息资源方面投资金，坚定不移地朝前发展，形成强有力的技术支撑。

将企业精力集中在开展产品试制、检验检测、质量认证、模具制造等服务上，提高设计企业市场响应速度；加强成果转化全流程知识产权保护能力建设，提供快速维权等服务；搭建工业设计网络交易平台，有效整合资源，搞好需求对接。同时在培养和引进工业设计高端人才和创新团队，建立区域工业设计人才培养基地，建立专家库；加强与相关院校和科研机构合作，探索开放式人才培养模式，推动设计人才省内外双向交流和联合培养的机制。

后记

Sayings at the end

在与荣鼐先生的沟通中，我们更多地感受到他希望不管是企业还是设计从业者都能对环境的变化及时做出改变，这个改变的前提是需要充分的思考与观察，通过思考与观察明确改变方向，在这个变化不断的时代生存下去。

During the conversation with Prof. Ron Nabarro, we learn that he hopes that whether companies or designers should make adjustments immediately according to the environment, and they should think and observe thoroughly before adjusting, thus surviving from this changing era.